Showing posts with label Boats for sale. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Boats for sale. Show all posts

Tuesday, 16 August 2016

MUST HAVE INFO 4 COBRA OWNERS

  MUST HAVE INFO 4 COBRA OWNERS

 

DO YOU HAVE A COBRA STERNDRIVE? IF SO YOU WILL WANT TO HAVE THIS! 







THIS INFORMATION FROM:

OMC Cobra Sterndrive Tech Info

Disclaimer

This website and its author are not affiliated in any way with OMC. See complete disclaimer below.

Introduction and History

When some critical Volvo patents expired, Outboard Marine Corp. redesigned their sterndrive product and named it the "Cobra." This sterndrive was mated to many different engines, and was routinely installed on a wide variety of boats. The first Cobra shipped in 1985. Everyone agreed the new Cobra drive was an improvement over the predecessor "stringer mount" drive, including many existing boat manufacturers that owned large inventories of the now-obsolete drives. Since these manufacturers didn't want to get stuck with un-salable sterndrives, they pressured OMC into limiting Cobra shipments until they could clear out their existing inventories. Thus, the Cobra didn't ship in volume until the 1986 model year. Thanks to Carl G. Craver for this tidbit. Some early Cobras ate their gearsets. OMC initially thought the clutch dogs were disengaging due to insufficient "bite" (interference cut) on the clutch dog teeth. OMC increased the bite angle from two to five degrees, and all subsequent Cobra clutch dogs have five-degree teeth. All known Cobra owners got a letter (133k) promising warranty coverage if any gearsets failed. Unfortunately, the five-degree clutch dogs did not solve the problem, and in the following year, OMC re-diagnosed the trouble as sticky shift cables. Cobra owners got another letter, inviting them to deliver their boats to an OMC dealer for a free redesigned cable. OMC would replace any cable that failed for free, and if a cable failure destoryed a gearset, OMC would replace the gearset too. The last time I checked (1997), a Cobra gearset was almost US$1000 (labor extra). OMC finally ended this extended warranty in early 1994. I belive the redesigned cable has truly fixed the problem. Alas, many people in the marine business clearly rememberd the gearset troubles, and forgot (or never heard of) the subsequent cable recall and resolution. Many of these folks are "still around," and they have contributed to the Cobra's (undeserved) troubled reputation today. The Cobra was produced until 1993, when OMC redesigned it to use a cone-clutch shifting mechanism originated by Volvo-Penta. I don't know if OMC purchased gears and etc. made by Volvo, or just copied Volvo's design. OMC was having financial difficulties at that time, and sold a 50% stake in their sterndrive business to Volvo-Penta. This new sterndrive is available with one prop ("SX") or dual props ("DP"). The new SX/DP drive retains many of the original Cobra castings. OMC has since been taken private by another company, and sold their remaining interest in the sterndrive business to Volvo. OMC and Volvo have agreed to supply parts to each other, but OMC has left the sterndrive business. OMC continues to purchase SX and DP drives for boats produced by OMC subsidiary companies. OMC went bankrupt in December 2000. Bombardier has purchased the outboard business and the Evinrude and Johnson brandnames. Bombardier is supplying Cobra sterndrive parts, with some price increases. My understanding is that OMC still exists as a legal entity, but they've closed their business, and sold off the rights to their products. I gather they still own their Waukegan headquarters, mainly because they polluted it badly and it's now a Superfund site.

Problems with the Cobra

Cobras have a reputation for eating their gears. This is usually due to a failed shift cable, and is easily prevented. Cobras are routinely maladjusted, compounding the problem. When the distraught owner of a failed Cobra wrote to Trailer Boats magazine, they brushed him off. I wrote a followup letter to Trailer Boats to explain what happened. My letter suggested the dealer was responsible, but it was never published; I suppose it was too long. You may read it here.

Current Status of the Cobra

Original and aftermarket parts seem to be readily available. Comments on rec.boats suggest that many dealers and technicians are still misunderstanding Cobras, and I expect that Cobra expertise will diminish over time. If you're buying a used boat, you're stuck with the drive already installed. If it's a Cobra, you can use the information here to get it shifting perfectly; properly maintained, it is just as good or better than the comparable MerCruiser products. The terrible reputation of the Cobra may depress the price of Cobra-equipped boats slightly. If you know how to adjust a Cobra, this is not an entirely bad thing.

Identifying Your Cobra

I'm aware of three varieties of Cobra: 1. Dog-clutch (128k), prop exhaust (labelled "OMC Cobra") The most common Cobra, and the subject of this website. The F-N-R gears are located in the bottom, in-line with the propeller. Note the top of the outdrive (portion exposed to water outside the boat) is relatively flat. 2. Dog-clutch, through-hull exhaust (labelled "King Cobra") Mechanically the same as #1, but louder. 3. Cone-clutch (cut-away view, 198k) (also labelled "King Cobra") This Cobra is very rare; I have never personally seen one. The F-N-R gears are located in the top of the outdrive, directly behind the engine. Note the hump on top of the outdrive case that accomodates these bulkier gears. The Volvo-style "cone clutch" in the 1993-on "King Cobra" is extremely durable, and it is not subject to the "bad gears" failure the others are famous for. The 1993-on "King Cobra" is also not otherwise addressed on this webpage; if you have one, buy the manuals, and take it to a qualified Volvo technician. Rejoice! Volvo-style gears are renouned for near-indestructibility. Note the water-pump located on the back of the F-N-R gearcase on the 1993-on OMC "King Cobra." I've been told that the Volvo SX and DP drives use a similar waterpump attached to the engine crank pulley (inside the boat). The rest of you with "dog-clutch" Cobras can continue reading :-) . You will need your serial numbers when querying OMC about your drive. OMC hid several different serial numbers in various places. See them all here (141k). This page was scanned from my 1998 Owners' Manual, and does not show where OMC hid the serial number for smallblock Ford V8s (302, 351), or for GM big-block V8s (454, 502).

Whats a Dog Clutch?

Clumsily explained here.

My Own Cobra Experience

My Cobra has a 2bbl 4.3L V6, and is fitted to a 1988 Four Winns Horizon 180, a typical 18-foot bowrider. This is my first boat, so it took me a while to realize what a serious problem I was facing. My Cobra gearshift was very stiff, requiring about three times as much force as it should to engage/disengage gears. I made many phone calls to OMC, accumulated documentation, talked to many people, and replaced parts until it improved. The main problem turned out to be the Transom Bracket Shift Cable; it seems that the cable OMC installed in 1989 during the recall was still on my boat, and it was failing. In retrospect, this should not have been a suprise; the cable was approximately nine years old! Today, my Cobra "shifts with a finger," as should any properly adjusted Cobra. My Cobra also had a stalling problem when cold; if you engaged a gear before the engine was fully warmed up (a ten-minute process), it would stall. This was an annoyance, as well as an embarrassment when there is a line of folks waiting to launch their boats. The stalling problem turned out to be a vacuum leak, coumpounded by a complete carburetor maladjustment. Of course, I didn't figure this out until I removed the carburetor for a rebuild (one of the hold-down nuts was loose). It appeared that a previous owner/mechanic deliberatly maladjusted everything on the carburetor in a vain attempt to compensate for the vacuum leak. Today, I can engage reverse and back off the trailer as soon as the engine is running. When reviving my boat from winter storage in 1999, I carefully re-visited the adjustment procedure, and I actually measured the cable drag of my transom bracket shift cable. It was too high; another hour of exploration led to a defective "retainer" (see part "R" in picture 11 here). I thought this was very subtle problem, but it's known and documented in the OMC service bulletins. I have some hints for Cobra owners that defy classification. If you have any of your own to share, please send me an e-mail.

Adjusting your Cobra Shift Linkage

Dave Brown (marina owner and frequent contributor to rec.boats) once said that a properly adjusted Cobra will "shift with a finger." I urge the reader to demand as much from your own sterndrive. If your sterndrive requires more than one finger to shift, get it fixed soon, because your gearset depends upon it. If you're serious about working on your sterndrive, I urge you buy all of the appropriate documentation, especially the "shop manual." I strongly recommend you get the original documentation from the people that built your equipment. I'm not impressed by the aftermarket manuals (Clymer, Seloc, &etc). The manuals should be available from your local dealer, or you can call the manufacturer directly and pay with a credit card. The price will be similar; locally, you'll pay sales tax, and if you order from the manufacturer, you'll pay shipping. Even if your shop manual is out-of-date in some respects (as mine is), it is a wealth of information, and very useful when diagnosing an obscure problem. I'm not listing part numbers for the documentation here because OMC may have different manuals that apply to different years of drives, and I'm too lazy to confirm or disprove this with OMC. However, here are the names of the documents I recommend you get: OMC Cobra Owner-Operator's Manual OMC Cobra Service Manual OMC Cobra Parts Catalog The third item may surprise you; it's a booklet of exploded parts diagrams for an entire sterndrive, with part numbers. This makes it very convenient to order parts from a dealer; you can order by part number, avoiding the usual colorful "thingy that connects the whatsit to the thingamgig" discussions. Below is a link to my by-hand transcription of an OMC document that explains how to adjust the shift linkage on the Clutch-Dog Cobra. I believe this procedure supercedes the procedure outlined in the OMC Cobra Service Manual. My copy of the OMC document is dated "10/17/96", and I believe it to be the latest and final word OMC will ever utter on this topic. Fortunately, it is reasonably clear and easy to follow, and I am very satisifed with my results. I hope this information is as helpful to others. When you read this document, be aware that it assumes you have a servicable Transom Bracket Shift Cable installed and adjusted correctly. If you are replacing your Transom Shift Cable, you'll need to adjust it with the ponderously-named Transom Bracket Shift Cable Adjustment procedure from the OMC Cobra Service Manual (page 11-16 in my copy). I have the two applicable pages 11-16 (290k) and 11-17 (288k) here. This procedure requires only common wrenches, a straightedge, and a ruler; note that subsequent Service Bulletins from OMC require you to use special Cobra-specific tools to make this adjustment.

Here is the legendary how-to-adjust-your-Cobra-shift-linkage document (what your dealer never told you, or didn't know):

OMC Cobra Shift System Adjustments for "KW-RG" (1986-1991) Clutch Dog Models (Stuart's transcription; 10k HTML) Here are images of the of the original two-page document, provided so readers may see it, and point out any errors in my transcription: OMC Cobra Shift System Ajustments for "KW-RG", page 1 (160k) OMC Cobra Shift System Ajustments for "KW-RG", page 2 (201k) This Service Bulletin describes how to recognize a defective spring in the Cobra shift linkage, and the p/n of the correct replacement. It cost me about US$2.50 for this part, but the new spring was still too stiff. However, it's straightforward to crunch the spring by hand to get a more appropriate tension: "Wrong Shift Interrupter Spring" (120k JPEG) This Service Bulletin just says to install the latest ESA (Electronic Shift Assist) module. When OMC converted from a two-degree clutch dog to a five-degree, the dog was more reluctant to disengage. The new ESA makes the engine idle slower and weaker to make disengagement easier. If you have the original two-degree gearset, and your ESA works, you probably don't need the new ESA. "Hard Shifting" (95k) This is a catch-all of typical problems that make the Cobra hard to shift. My own unit had none of these problems, yet I found these pages very interesting; some very obscure and un-intuitive problems are explained here: Diagnosis of Cobra shift problems, page 1 (140k) Diagnosis of Cobra shift problems, page 2 (180k) Diagnosis of Cobra shift problems, page 3 (197k) Diagnosis of Cobra shift problems, page 4 (155k) Diagnosis of Cobra shift problems, page 5 (170k) This is a page with pictures of some special tools OMC recommends for working on the Cobra shift linkage. According to OMC, you must have these tools in hand before you can adjust your Cobra shift linkage. My own experience is that none of these tools are necessary, although I'm sure they would make the procedure faster and more convenient. Recommended Tools for adjusting the Cobra shift linkage (76k) Just for completeness, here's a letter that came with some of the service bulletins that OMC graciously sent to me: OMC Letter to Stuart (55k) Here is the letter informing Cobra owners of the gearset recall. I I was fortunate that the original owner of my boat kept this now-historic document. I believe there was a subsequent Transom Bracket Shift Cable Recall letter, but I do not have a copy; presumably it was given to the dealer when the cable was replaced. OMC Gearset Recall Letter (133k)

Pertronix Ignitor

Many Cobras were built with non-electronic ignitions, using conventional points. These ignitions work fine, but the points are subject to wear, so the boat needs re-timing or even new points every season. You can end this cycle of maintenance by installing an electronic igntion retrofit; this is a gadget that replaces the points in your distributor. You install a plastic ring with magnets over the distributor cam, and the gadget senses the magnets as the distributor rotates. The beauty of the system is there are no points to wear and go out of adjustment, and I suppose it's a little more tolerant of moisture. OMC installed such "point-less" ignitions in the later Cobras (I've seen a '92 Cobra with factory electronic ignition). One option is to purchase this and mate it with your boat; in fact, OMC had a set of "kits" that included an electronic ignition gadget plus a new Electronic Shift Assist (ESA), all for the price of the ESA alone. I don't know if these are still available now that OMC is gone. Another, cheaper option is to install the Pertronix Ignitor(tm). (See http://www.pertronix.com.) This is problematic, as the OMC ESA expects to see its sense line dragged down to zero volts every time the points "close," and the Pertronix gadget doesn't do that. Your engine will run fine, but the ESA won't see the pulses it expects, and it won't work, so shifting is stiff. I telephoned Pertronix tech support (the phone number used to be on their website) and inquired. They said the OMC ESA was a known problem, and they mailed me a sheet with instructions for a simple circuit that would interface their gadget to the OMC ESA. Specifically, the circuit has two identical resistors, and two identical diodes, for a total of four parts. I visited my local Radio Shack, bought the parts, plus a small plastic box, and built the circuit. I installed it with my Pertronix Ignitor(tm), and my ESA works fine with it. The diagram that Pertronix sent me is here (100k). I grabbed this off their website some time back, and it subsequently disappeared. However, it had reappeared when I checked in early 2003 (look for "Ignitor," then "Support").

This Web Page

My intent in creating this web page is to spread what I've learned about the Cobra to other Cobra owners, that others may profit from what I've learned. I'm doing this as a Public Service; I'm not selling anything, or making any money with this information. I'm not trying to criticize anyone or force any changes in any corporate policies; I'm fighting ignorance. I did not create this web page to deprive OMC of documentation sales, or to save a few bucks for Cobra owners too cheap to buy the manuals, or to deprive OMC dealers of service business. If you own a Cobra, and you want to work on it yourself, you already know why you need the shop manuals. I realize, however, there are many people that are considering the purcase of a boat with a Cobra drive, or have been putting off the purchase of some manuals, or were just curious,& etc. Sadly, there are still many OMC dealers and independent technicians blissfully unaware of this information, and occasionally a Cobra gearset is destroyed due to such ignorance. Such incidents are expensive for Cobra owners, and they help propagate the "bad gears" story. For example, here is a letter (297k) from the March 1998 issue of Trailer Boats Magazine documenting such a case. If you spot an error, or have any suggestion for improving these pages, please send me a note. I'm reluctant to put my exact email address here, due to spamming concerns, but I'll spell it out: "stuart at hastings period org."

Legal Disclaimer

This information is provided as a Public Service; nobody is making any money from this. This website and its author are not affiliated in any way with Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC). OMC disavows any responsibility for this website, and the information herein. Neither OMC nor Stuart Hastings warrantee this information, and we accept no responsibility for any consequences if you attempt to apply any of the information stored here. OMC has looked at this website. When I created this website, I sent OMC an email describing this location and content. An OMC representative responded with this letter, graciously explaining OMC's position. I have already addressed the issues raised in the letter; you're reading the disclaimer. Please understand, dear reader, that I have reproduced OMC technical documents here, documents that OMC could claim copyright protection for. OMC has graciously agreed to tolerate this practice. Now that OMC is gone, I suppose Bombardier owns these documents; either way, I can't guarantee they'll stay available here forever. Given the fickle and ever-changing nature of the Web, this site will not exist forever. If you own, or expect to own, a Cobra sterndrive, I humbly suggest you make personal copies of any/all informtion contained here that seems useful to you. Created 19feb1999 Added Pertronix stuff, OMC bankruptcy, 03feb2003 Updated 23jun1999


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Sunday, 7 August 2016

WHAT BRAND OF POWER BOAT SHOULD I BUY ?

              

   WHAT BRAND SHOULD I BUY?

PART 1 NEW OR USED

 
 When questioning the choice of literally hundreds of power boat makes and models on the market today, many first time boat buyers feel that they have neither the knowledge or experience to make an informed decision. (Other than boaters or boater representatives who consider themselves experts.) Generally new boaters have no place to turn for honest answers.
                         
Most persons in the industry do not want to answer the "Which boat is best" question, providing  answers such as " We are just as confused on that topic as you are".  Industry Quote "It would take a cast of dozens of experts just to survey the field of new offerings every year, not to mention hundreds more experts to assess the existing millions of used boats. That's a feat no one has yet managed to tackle. That's why no one will give you a list of recommended boats. We can't just line boats up on a counter top and evaluate them; they're too big and the boats can't come to us, we have to go to them." This is a cop out the truth is a lot closer to every brand has some exceptional models and some real crap models. Some brand names are virtually valueless, others are sister companies where more than one brand name maybe manufactured side by side in the same plant. Or corporate cousins that share common materials and build technology. It is easier to remove some of the failed brands (builders who are out of production or have been out of production for years) from your list right up front. What you have to do is narrow the perimeters of your needs and budget. Then go ahead and sort the good brands and models available from the bad
 

So what do potential buyers do? They refer to the internet, brokers and persons they trust to aid them in their decision. For all of you who use internet searches for serious information on boats, you aren't going to find very many sites that will lay it all out there for you. Quote From Another So Called Boating Expert "Not many people are willing to risk getting sued by publishing negative information. It's far easier to go with the flow.

It's been said that the Internet has been largely responsible for creating better informed consumers. This comes mainly though complaints on forums and web sites like "My Crappy Larson" at Griperadio.com. We agree. Nowhere else can information be rounded up and transmitted so rapidly and made available to such a wide audience. But it has also led to a higher level of wariness by first time boaters that have cruised the forums and have heard the horror stories of first time buyers who have gotten burned."

SUED for publishing negative information! If a boat builder ever did that to Boat Nut I would scream it from the roof tops, (I have had enough dealings with these companies to be able and allowed to form an opinion of their boats.) Give me a break the truth of this is: There is no money in the truth. Here is how things really work the industry supplies "media releases and media prepared boats" which are then copied into the boat reviews that large media place on their sites or in print. Going with the flow means taking the easy way to cash, and admittedly these business' and sites cost money and time to run. So as a first time buyer who has your best interest at heart. Not very many boating sites are going to give you a real world impression of a power boat. It is not fear, the fact is the sites and magazines that post review information are designed and ran by marketers. Boat Nut Magazine is one of the few that is not ran by a marketing expert, we are industry insiders who have years of intimate experience with hundreds and hundreds of boats.
 Plain and simple we do know of crap boats and we do know that there are brands that shouldn't be holding their value. Are there experts out their who you could trust when making a buying decision? Hell yes there are. Reading a few are articles and watching some video is not enough you have to get more involved ask questions of the publishers that you are reading. See if they provide another piece of marketing bull crap, or if they answer you straight forward and directly with confidence. Email, call, check out the responses that you receive, this is how you will discover who you can trust. Forums and Glitzy Magazine Covers do not make experts and beware of those who refer to themselves as "captains". ( I hate how that term CAPTAIN has been stolen by every dam self appointed boat expert who thinks they know it all) Honestly if there were this many experts in the boat market you would be knee deep in TO MUCH INFORMATION. There wouldn't be a hole in the  power boat information super highway, yet there is a big hole. Many boaters on forums are already pissed off that their boat is broken, and in all likely hood its operator error. This is not were you want to receive advise on what boat to buy! Brokers are not much better than mass boating media, they want to steer a buyer toward the boats that they have listed, they do not want your money running out the door. Some will tell you the sky is green just to sell a boat. Boats are a want, not a need, your taste is not another's taste, your use of a boat is not the same as someone else. You must be true to yourself about what you want to use your boat for and the experience you are looking for on the water. Yes most boaters get it wrong the first time around, think of your first boat as a dry run. This is with or without great information. It will not take you long to figure it out, you will know more about the way you will use your boat. Your second boat will be the one you keep awhile and the third and so on. Please do not get discouraged by the stories of getting burnt or hearing a particular boat that you like is a terrible purchase. Opinions are like ass holes every one has one. 
 
How do you make the decision? Be informed about the specific boat you have settled on. It is the suggestion of many boat industry sources that you buy a used boat first and save that new boat purchase until you have some boating experience under your belt. This is not the only way to gain boating experience you can rent a boat or borrow a boat if you have a generous friend. Make sure that your family will enjoy their time on the boat! My family is truly split two who love boating, and two who are not big on boating. This fact changed the last two boats that I owned the boats were smaller in size and set up for overnighting only.
 
Of course there are those who must only have a new boats, and I say more power to you. But do not expect that new means less loss of value, faster resale or less time being repaired. A decent used boat is a great way to start out at your boating lifestyle. Being educated with the make and model you choose will make a huge difference in your experiences on the water and when your ready the ability to make that leap to your second boat. I know many first time buyers who have paid way, way to much for used boats that truly were not a resalable. They made a decision with out consulting non bias information providers and making a quick purchase with out understanding three basic rules.
1- Do not buy based on a brand name only
2- Highly modified or remodeled power boats can be horrible on the water 
3- Boat makes and models that are unpopular in their region will be more difficult to sell.
4- Know how to read a Hull Identification Number and never buy numbers one two or three at least.
 Region places a bigger role than you think in a boats value. Models that have been well marketed by  dealers in your region for many years are the boats that are more in demand by your regional used boat buyers. A manufacturer that has been well marketed like Sea Ray have created such a buzz that there is always a demand, not because they are a better power boat, but due to the fact that boat sales are always handled in a way that seems to pit one brand (most popular, largest dealer) against another. Example SEA RAY and BAYLINER these where sister companies for years using the same build procedures and power plants. However Sea Ray owners always seem to beat up the Bayliner brand owners. Brands had to bash Bayliner they were the largest volume power boat builder in the world, more boats built than Sea Ray at one time. All this brand bashing yet they are both Brunswick Companies.

 Selling boats is a war. Get educated and experienced do not become a casualty!

.
 QUOTE FROM INDUSTRY "Oh, we've heard the arguments about buying someone else's troubles a hundred times over. But since when don't new boats have problems? How many times does the typical new boat owner have to lug his boat back to the dealer for warranty work? Much too often, if our experience is any indicator.
The fact is that there are huge economic and reliability advantages in purchasing a boat that has been pre owned and pre tested, if I may use that term. A boat that has been used for a couple of years has been out there banging around on the waves. If there's anything that's not right, anything that's going to break, it is likely to have already done so. If the deck is going to pop loose from the hull because it was fastened with aluminum rivets, a quick glance at it will surely tell the story."
 I could not have said that better of course the reference to the deck and hull joint may be a stretch. A key role in that pretested boat theory, a boat with a couple of years of operation, is hours of operation per year. Did the boat motor(s) even get broken in, did the warranty issues that may have appeared get reported or fixed.  Were there any recalls. Did the boat receive the first correct services and last is their a warranty time left and is it transferable. These are all very important questions that an informed buyer will know to ask, or at the very least how to get the answers. 
Never assume that the two or three year old boat has had the bugs worked out and fixed that is a huge mistake! Some boat owners are drowning from the moment the boat arrives at the dock and the boat simply does not get the attention that it deserves needs or mandatorily requires.

 

I have to have a brand new boat,  on the new boat I am covered with a nice warranty blanket? OK, but what will it take in time and aggravation to have any of the work done. How disappointed will you become if you spend well in excess of a hundred grand and have the boat tied up in repair in the first year. Boats are one of the last big ticket products that are still largely hand assembled with technology that has had limited testing. A great example of this is the Volvo ONE DRIVE the reverse I/O. Boat builders had to highly modify the existing boat hulls in production to make this drive work. With vast amounts of what appears to be trim tabs but are actually anti cavitation plates. I have completed warranty repair work around the globe for many of the big brand manufacturers and seen a lot of owners upset that they made that new boat purchase . You have to be realistic, new boats are not without issues. The uphill battle when these issues are serious can be daunting.

The economics in considering a used power boat make even greater sense. Industry Quote "Take a cue from larger boat buyers. Over 90% of all boats over 30 feet sold every year are USED BOATS! Ninety percent. And we're talking here boats of up to ten times the value of the typical entry level runabout. Take it from the more experienced boat owners who know value when they see it; used boats are a tremendous value. Let me explain why.
Let's say that the new twin outboard, twenty foot runabout you're looking at can be had for $40,000 straight out of the box. A comparable model that's four years old sells for $20,000. That's a  whopping $20,000 difference. And for whatever may be wrong with the used one, that twenty thousand will cover the cost of repair of any problems many times over. And the higher the price, the greater the new/used price spread is going to be."
 
And keep in mind that part of what you are paying for with a new boat is the fancy dealer show room, as well as his profit.
What greater inducement can be offered a first time buyer? And even if your purchase does turn out to be a mistake, it will be a mistake that only costs about half as much.

There is truth to that statement but the fact remains that you are actually putting a percentage of that new boat cost directly back into the customer service departments budget to complete the required volume of repairs that the new boats of that model year will require. It is more of that new boat price tag than you think!
 That twenty thousand dollar difference referenced to in the above statement does not make any sense to me. Unless you are steeling a forty thousand dollar boat for twenty grand. then are you not buying a twenty thousand dollar boat and preparing to sink a load of cash into it that you will never see back. I get the principal but that does not take away from the fact that you must be an educated consumer to buy right. Not just a boat buyer who is willing to accept dropping a pile of cash over time into a used boat, and how that could work out to be cost effective boat buying decision making?

Current Internet Boater Information

 
Outboard -vs- Stern Drive  Many people still aren't clear on this point, yet getting the right criteria to make a decision is simple.
  • If a boat is to be left afloat in sea water, outboards are the best option. Why? Because outboards can be lifted up out of the water; stern drives can't.
  • Stern drives are fine for fresh water and those who keep their boats in dry storage.

Boat Nut Response:   

Out Board VS Stern Drive:   What a crock that is lets try and clear this up for the above site
 
First of all there is no way to entirely clear the water even with an outboard the transom bracket and the base of the trim ram is always in the water. In fact trimming the motor in and out of the salt with out a rinse will promote, not stop corrosion.
 Stern Drives are designed for salt water emersion they are not any better or worse than an outboard motor.
 
As a matter of fact the reasons power boats are rigged with outboards rather than stern drives is boat performance, manufacturers place outboards on the back of boats to provide the best performance for a particular hull. It has nothing to do with salt or fresh water.
 
Some boat builders will offer a stern drive or outboard package for the same boat, the reason for this is retail price and the ability to hang an outboard and gain more free room deck space at the aft deck area. Hence more seating or more open deck for fishing. The choice between the outboard or inboard outboard is boat design, performance,coat and deck usage.

 

    Current Internet Boater Information

Closed -vs- Raw Water Cooling Systems   This applies to any type of inboard power. This choice is also a simple one.

  • If you're operating in sea water, the closed cooling system should be considered mandatory. Sea water does the same thing to your engine as salt on the roads in winter does to your car. And sometimes the corrosion damage occurs very, very quickly.
  • If you're operating in fresh water, you do not need a closed cooling system and there's no point in paying the extra cost.
Does this apply to outboards? No. The outboard motor sits vertically on the drive unit. When the engine stops, all the cooling water runs out by means of gravity, so internal corrosion is not the same problem as it is with inboard/stern drives without closed cooling systems.
 

Boat Nut Response:

 
Closed Cooling VS Raw Water Cooling:   Again where do they get these recommendations from?
 
Any inboard or inboard outboard can be closed cooling, and no there is no simple choice as a matter of fact new technology makes that choice for you!
 
Closed cooling works well any where you boat with the exceptions of any body of water that gets warm enough on a regular bases to prevent the heat exchanger from properly transferring the heat from the motor to the fresh water in the exchanger. A great example of an area where closed cooling doesn't work well is in Florida in the gulf of Mexico where the water is to warm to cool motors down enough. These older motors will always run warmer than they should.
 
Damage from corrosion in salt water or high mineral content water will come along if you do not have the correct anodes, or enough of them, and failing to be a responsible owner and failing to flush the motor regularly.
 
New motors require a constant running temperature to perform properly if this is the case then closed cooling maybe a not be an option you get closed cooling that's it.
 
Closed cooling was an expensive option to have added to your motor when new however if you did add the closed cooling system, winterizing is easier, water passages in engine blocks will not end up with sand in them, and overall corrosion around the entire engine is reduced no matter where you are boating.

Out boards are now and have always been susceptible to corrosion. Not all of a new four stroke outboard automatically drain area such as thermostat housings can and do hold some water.
  

BOAT MAKES

    Industry Quote:" When it comes to quality and separating the wheat from the chaff, this is not an easy task. Asking others is one way to get information. Try taking a trip to the local marina or launching ramp on Saturday and start asking questions. But beware that most boat owners take boat ownership personally. Many are reluctant to admit that the boat they own is not all that it should be. If a guy says that his boat is the greatest thing on the water, he may not be giving you the whole story. Assuming he knows the whole story. Not many people are willing to admit to making a mistake."

I disagree there are ways top spot quality in a moment if you are around several boats, here are a few tips :
1- Deck hardware: A dead give away for a boats quality, look at the cleats and the bow rail. The stainless hardware is a place where a boat builder can cheap out and still get the job done. If you see quality in stainless you will know it chunky and not pieced together
2- Colored hulls: Take a closer look at the color is it foggy and cloud like, this is a sign of lower quality gel coat materials.
3- Upholstery and Canvas: Another area where boat manufacturers can save money Cheap vinyl will start to fail in the first couple of years. Look at areas where you may rub the vinyl boarding the boat or areas where hands are on the material all the time. If the boat comes with a bimini does it have side curtains is it a complete enclose. Is there a boarding area were you do not have to step on cushions to access the cockpit area.
4- Component: Assembly of more inexpensive boats will probably have many parts added to it or components to create lines and features. A quality boat has very little to no added crap mounted less is definitely more.
5- Open a hatch and look under the deck cheaper boats are usually rough and unfinished
6- There are a whole host of tells to know if a boat is quality that's just a few
 
 A boater who admits that their boat is a pile of junk is probably so irritated with the boat that he/she will probably be glad to show you or tell you exactly what the issues are. You will however have to take this information with a grain of salt as some of these boaters will find everything with the boat to be a horrible plan or product. These boaters may complain and bitch however the source of the complaining could be affordability of ownership or repair which has compounded the issue creating a hate relationship with the boat. Ask a few pointed questions, and know the questions to ask, do not think you know what to ask, know you know what to ask. An unhappy owner can be a source of accurate information. Only if the owner can give you some very specific reasons why he/she dislikes his boat. The same rules apply for the boat lover, in some cases this is ego and attitude more so than reality. There are many boaters who do not want to admit that their boat has had any issues at all.
 
Industry Quote: " The price is the other major part of the equation. Generally speaking, repeat, generally speaking, higher prices indicate  higher quality. The problem is that with a new boat, it's tough to prove that claims to higher quality are really valid until the boat has been put to the test".
This is so true with todays market more than at any other time models are changing design so rapidly that the truth will only come with time. Quality of materials and finishes will not make a sea worthy craft I am concerned that ergonomics and space are starting to trump design safety. Are builders just creating dock jewelry? Some rather expensive boating bling that wouldn't get you back to port in a storm.
 
Industry Quote: "So once again we come full circle to fact that the used boat usually represents the better buy. It's been put to the test, so that if it does have problems, at least you have the opportunity to discover those problems by getting it surveyed."
So what have we learned here ? Well buying a boat new or used requires a new boater to make a lot of decisions ahead of the brand name. The brand that you will end up buying will likely be the one that ticks off as many of the boxes on your wish list as possible. Meets your budget and passes the quality and condition standard that you the buyer decides to set. If your first boat is a used boat it will cost you less and give you the boating experiences you need. Should it not meet the needs that you  actually encounter as a boat owner, it has not cost you as much as a new boat. If you buy used you should follow all the steps to protect yourself from buying a money pit or a previous owners problems.
                          
Quite often used boats that are for sale have experienced a time of neglect. This is the time between when the previous owner has decided to sell the boat and the time the new owner takes possession. Most new buyers need to call in experts to assist them in making decisions surrounding current condition and required service to get the boat they are buying or have already purchased up to standard.
So who are the "experts"? You can hire a surveyor to advise you.  Industry Quote" When it comes to small boats, probably not. The fact is that there's no money in small boats for surveyors, so there are probably very few that would even try to specialize in building a wealth of information about small boats. Besides, there are too many of them."
    If you have read any of my previous articles you will already know that I am not a fan of surveyors. Its a broken system that is far to lop sided when it comes to the way a boat is inspected. Surveyors show up with their moisture meters and hammers and go to work on a used boat taking readings and banging away to find deficiencies that may have existed from day one. They quote the ABYC bible and make recommendations regarding out of date systems or components. There is no test ride and the boat does not even have to run. They should kill the term survey and bring in a power boat safety, this smoke and mirrors excuse that there are to many boats to develop a safety inspection is the biggest load of ..B...S...... well you know. There are set guidelines and standards in the boat construction world that could be followed, and make a complete mechanical inspection part of the deal. No safety No transfer of title. There are too many first time boaters who lay out their money on the word of a previous owner, broker or hired expert that end up completely upside down for my liking. The fear here is that many power boats would fail such a test and require to much to repair to be worth while. That's ok the boat market needs to be cleaned up to protect new boat buyers and safeties would be a great place to start. As a matter of fact this type of program may help stabilize insurance rates and over all cost of power boat ownership. It would certainly bring a standard to power boat inspections and reduce the element of risk associated with buying a used boat.
                       
Industry Quote: "The bottom line is, whether you buy new or used, that when making that first boat purchase, there is some risk involved. Keep in mind that boat builders are very, very small companies, not the likes of a General Motors or Honda with billions of dollars in resources. Boat builders come and go with considerable frequency. Some aren't very good with, or even have the ability to give good warranty service. Hence, that fabulous warranty the salesman touts may have a different basis in reality.
Therefore, the element of risk isn't all that great between buying a new boat or used."\
 
There is some truth to the above statement. Yes there are a mountain of small boat manufacturers out there for whom some of this statement applies, however there are giants like Brunswick who are as big as GM and have the resources to back up their boat builders warranties. This cottage industry thinking has to go the way of the Doe Doe . Boats are one hell of a substantial investment and the buyers expectations should be just as high as the price tag.
 
Actually that sums this section of this article up in the simplest of terms possible:  When buying a power boat new or used you can expect to get what you pay for! Buy a cheap used boat be prepared to have problems the more you spend the better the boat you will get. I am sure there is the occasional deal to be had but look at the price of a new boat like the used one you are looking at. Compare the gap in price and decide if the risk is worth the reward. If you are educated on the make and model and understand the boat this decision can be an easy one to make. Learn how to self survey before you call in an expert this way you can thin out the few boats that you place on your purchase possibility list! Every boater should know their boat from bow to stern and top to bottom. 

PART 2     http://boatnutmedia.blogspot.ca/2015/12/whos-who-power-boat-manufacturers-part1.html

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Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
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Friday, 5 August 2016

SEEING IS BELIEVING / YAMAHA OUTBOARD




 

SEEING IS BELIEVING !

YAMAHA OUTBOARD

 
I do not know if this was a 100% fluke but it is 100% fact. I watched with some surprise today as a 30 HP 2003 Yamaha Outboard sprang to life, nothing special about that on any other day. However today was special!
 
This outboard motor was rolled into a garage 7 years ago almost to the day, and not been touched at all. The owner hooked up the day tank with new gas and hooked up a new battery. Pumped the primer bulb and turned the key with no other preparation at all. That motor started right up, that little outboard even pumped a stream of water from the tattle tale, it was no a disappointment!
 
This is a fresh water motor but to fire right up and idle after seven years is remarkable. I would have expected it to try and run , we were impressed. This is a testament to Yamaha Outboard Motors. It will require new fluids, plugs, fuel filter and a new water pump impellor to get back on the water but that's it. I am looking forward to the first ride to see if this little motor will be everything we expect it to be. After all the fall of 2009 to summer 2016 is a long off season.
 

So here is to Yamaha Outboard and this 30 HP motor, I have to say after that test I would buy one! 

 
Image result for 2003 yamaha 30 hp outboard





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Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
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Wednesday, 3 August 2016

COMMERCIAL & NON COMMERCIAL MARINE EDUCATION




 

COMMERCIAL & NON COMMERCIAL MARINE EDUCATION

 
 

COURSES ARE AVAILABLE IN TORONTO CANADA

 
 
ALL COMMERCIAL MARINE COURSES WILL BE OFFERED WITH A TRANSPORT CANADA APPROVED CURRICULM AND INTSRUCTORS. THE EDUCATION CENTER HAS ALSO BEEN APPROVED BY TRANSPORT CANADA
 
Commercial courses are designed for persons who have desire to work in the commercial marine industry. If you are using your boat for charters you must educate yourself to meet the legal requirements for legal operation.
 
 
ALL NON COMMERCIAL BOATING COURSES WILL BE OFFERED BY A TRAINED EXPERT IN THE REQUIRED FIELD. COURSES HAVE BEEN VETTED BY INDUSTRY AND OR GOVERNING BODIES.
 
Non commercial courses are designed to educate vessel owners or operators in various subjects related to vessel ownership. All graduates will receive a diploma and an opportunity to save on parts and insurance.
 
 
CLASS SIZES ARE LIMITED / NON COMMERCIAL COURSES WILL BE AVAILABLE ON LINE FOR INTERNATIONAL VESSEL OWNERS.
 
Please Link to  http://boatnuteducation.freeblog.site/  for all the information you will need.
 
 



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Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
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Tuesday, 2 August 2016

WATER IN THE FUEL PT3/ MECHANICAL EFFECTS




WATER IN THE FUEL PT3/ MECHANICAL EFFECTS


DISCLAIMER:  BOAT NUT IS POSTING THIS INFORMATION AS AN ADDITION TO PART1/ PART2:
MECHANICAL FAILURES CAN OCCUR FOR MANY REASONS BESIDES CONTAMINATED FUEL....

Once you have removed the contaminated fuel: By running a motor with contaminated fuel you have created an increase in the probability of mechanical failures which will relate to the performance of your motor. The length of time you have been burning contaminated fuel will have a direct relationship on the seriousness of these mechanical failures. Some or all of these effects can show themselves immediately, progress slowly or lay seemingly dormant waiting for you to leave the vessel for an extended period of time. This downtime will likely be off season storage or simply an extended period of time were the motor is not started. Your motor may have seemed to run reasonably after the contaminated fuel has been removed however mechanical issues or failures may have already started to set in. Once you begin to run the vessel again theses failures can and usually do start to effect the motors performance. These mechanical failures can include ignition system failures, carburetor failures, fuel pump failures, injector failures, spark plug failures, sensor failures to name a few. This may help you understand how water or contaminated fuel can sneak up on you and suddenly or slowly (dictated by the amount of contamination) over a period of time create performance issues with your motor(s).

You can be out enjoying a day of cruising, all seems fine with the motor performance and suddenly it just will not start or the motor begins to loose power. If you have had or do have contaminated fuel be prepared to spend some time and money having to deal with related mechanical failures. If you have had the motor tuned up while burning contaminated fuel, which is a common error. Technicians and vessel owners quite of treat the immediate problem and miss the symptom. You may find that resetting idle and timing is necessary after you clean the contaminated fuel out of the system. The year and type of motor that your vessel has will set the base line for what systems will fail and why. A vessel which is all analog and does not have an ECM has a different less components to fail then that of a digital motor with an ECM this is due to the fact that the ECM constantly requires information from all over the motor through a series of sensors to change the parameters of the fuel air mixture and the spark to compensate for the contaminated fuel. These digital motors are either fuel injection and there is nothing harder on an injector than water contamination. So lets break down the failures you can expect on these two different types of motors.

 

Motors without an ECM and are carbureted:


Initial mechanical failures may include the following (all mechanical parts can fail on there own due to heat and other factors. You must keep in mind: you have either had contaminated fuel or have had a combination of these failures which will point you toward contaminated fuel tank)

1- Ignition Cap and Rotor: To burn the contaminated fuel the Ignition Coil, Distributor Cap, and Rotor will eat themselves up from attempting to create enough spark to ignite the contaminated fuel in the combustion chamber.

This mechanical failure can show up initially with a burnt coil wire, failed ignition coil or combination of both. The result of this is a no start.

2-Carburetor Failure: The carburetor has ingested so much contaminated fuel that the interior components are starting to corrode and stick.

This mechanical failure will begin with hard starting and stalling at an idle. The stalling will be a particular problem when shifting as the shift interrupter stalls the engine for a second to unload the motor from the drive or transmission.

3-Spark Plug Failure: The spark plugs have had to fire and ignite contaminated fuel.

This mechanical failure will begin with the motor missing and possible backfire when running. Bad plugs will also create a hard start or no start situation. You may also notice excessive fuel burn and will definitely see a fuel slick from the exhaust on top of the water. As the plugs fail they will no longer be able to burn all the raw fuel being sent to the cylinder.

 

Motors with ECM Fuel Injection and Throttle Body Injection:


1A- Fuel Pump Failure: An electronic fuel pump will suffer horribly from the water that passes through it.

This mechanical failure will begin to show itself as start issues and motor cutting out until finally the motor will not start.

2A- Ignition Cap and Rotor Failure: The cap and rotor fail for the same reasons as the above list 2  with the addition of the failure of the timing advance module

This mechanical failure will begin with the motor being hard to start, continuing toward running issues that will include power loss and bumpy idling. This is called hunting once ignition systems and motor sensors begin to fail, the computer (ECM) will try to compensate. This can lead to failure codes held in the ECM. Clearing codes will require the use of a software program to access the ECM memory. Failure codes can hinder normal operating modes, by restricting full operational parameters. Locking the motor in a safe operation mode, this restricts the motors ability to reach RPM rates over a fixed level.

3A- Spark plug failure: is the same with or without an ECM. See list 3 above.

4A- Fuel Injector Failure: Fuel injectors become damaged when water is introduced into them.

Fuel Injectors can show several signs of damage by contaminated fuel, you will  notice flooding as the injector will not create a nice spray but instead turn into a small fire hose. this will flood the cylinder with fuel and create a hard start condition, fowling the plug(s)
\
5A- Sensor Failure: sensors that provide the computer with the information it requires to make decisions with the way the motor starts and runs.

The main sensors that can fail from contaminated fuel are the MAP sensor or the manifold air pressure sensor, TPS throttle position sensor and the IAC. The reason that these sensors fail is that it is exposed directly to the flow of air in the intake manifold and can get contaminated with water or other contamination. Or in the case of the TPS can become damp with water around the throttle body itself. If a sensor begins to fail the motor can flood with fuel, or begin to react in strange ways eventually creating start issues. If a sensor is completely shot it can lead to a no start.

Water or contaminated fuel is not the only reason why some or all of these mechanical components  fail, however if you know that your fuel has been contaminated and the motor has been run with bad fuel. Or a series of failures have happened and you have repaired Ignition parts, plugs, fuel filter and the motor ran better but has started to run rough soon after "then take a look at the fuel". When hiring a service technician for motor running issues, the technician should always ask how old the fuel in the tank is. Be honest and let the mechanic know if there is old fuel or old fuel mixed with new. This can save time and money.

 

This is not a how to guide but rather meant to be informative for the vessel owner who has had contaminated fuel or has had a motor that has been difficult to get running correctly and has over looked the possibility of contaminated fuel.

 
 


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Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
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Sunday, 24 July 2016

CAN YOU BUY AND RESTORE AN OLD PRODUCTION POWER BOAT

CAN YOU BUY AND RESTORE AN OLD PRODUCTION POWER BOAT






Restoring an old production boat such as a Bayliner or a Sea Ray has been a question that Boat Nut Magazine has been asked many times by Email in the last month.(There is no magic formula) Boat Nut has received requests to assist and inform potential boat buyers on the possibilities of buying and fixing or restoring early 1990s and late 1980s power boats.

So how do you decide if a boat is worth the money and effort to restore?

First of you must understand the environment that the boat was operated in and the environment the boat has been stored in. If you don't understand or take these two details into account don't buy the boat!

Unlike the automotive market the boat market does not seem to have a market for these boats at all. Production boats that have been without attention for some years are basically worthless. If you take the time to restore these boats they will get to and only hold the value that the market evaluators place on them. Possibly at some point soon we will see a restoration market appear, this will be due to the dramatic increases in new boat values. But not yet, you can always try to restore one of these boats for the love of the boat or to see what you can muscle out of the buyers market.(such as storm damaged boats) One of the two main problems that exist with these boats is the over all cost to repair and the fact that new boat technology has most boat buyers looking for bells and whistles. Many new boaters are looking for joy stick control, they have been sold on the idea that older technology boats are difficult to operate. " NO Thanks To All The Companies Who Push This Idea Onto The Market". (I personally like the idea that there is a mechanical tie between the shifters and the motor and the steering and the drive , rudders or motor.)

New Power Boat technology does not make for a better boat!


There are three core issues that rear their heads when it comes to older production boats and they are:

1- The mechanical systems. This is the motors, drives and other mechanical items that make the boat move and react in the water


2- The structure of the boat. This is all the stringers bulkheads transom, any of the structure that gives the boat strength and allows all the items and systems in the boat to be mounted.


3-Upholstery and canvas. This portion of a repair or restoration can set you back a spectacular amount of cash. It is not unusual for a replacement bimin top and curtains to cost more than the used operational boat does.


You need to understand the condition of and the possibility of repairing what you are looking at buying. There are outdrives for example that you flat out do not want to even own due to parts availability, failed engineering or flat out lack of production replacement parts available at all. What you must do is a complete self survey Boat Nut Media supplies this as a package to you based on the year model and make of boat. There is only a very small amount of information from the boat that Boat Nut needs to provide you with a system to educate yourself as to what the hell the boat you are looking at has left to give you. 

Every boat that has been denied service and maintenance for an extended period of time presents a different series of issues that you must be aware of. This also applies to different models and model years. No matter what decision you make be sure that you know you know do not think you know! Thinking you know will end up costing you too much money and ruin your boating dreams!

 

Contact Boat Nut Magazine @ boatnutmedia@gmail.com to find out how to order your custom self survey program so you don't get burned!


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Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
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VIDEO CONTENT TRAILER BOATING / A must view for Trailer Boaters Pt2






 

TRAILER BOATING / A must view for Trailer Boaters Pt2


                                                  Video Addendum "to go with previous article"







To guarantee access to all of  Boat Nut Magazine articles, pictures and featured services visit the official Boat Nut Magazine ©™ website. Be sure to reply to the Boat Nut Association registration on our site for the latest Boat Nut weekly and monthly news letters and opportunities.






Copyright 2015 © Boat Nut Media, Toronto, Ontario. All rights reserved. No part of this information/publications may be stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, or reproduced in any way, including but not limited to photocopy, magnetic, or other record, without prior agreement and written permission of the publisher, Boat Nuts Media ©™ No liability is assumed with respect to the information provided
Connect with the Magazine web site