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WHAT BRAND SHOULD I BUY?
PART 1 NEW OR USED
When questioning the choice of literally hundreds of power boat makes and models on the market today, many first time boat buyers feel that they have neither the knowledge or experience to make an informed decision. (Other than boaters or boater representatives who consider themselves experts.) Generally new boaters have no place to turn for honest answers.
Most persons in the industry do not want to answer the "Which boat is best" question, providing answers such as " We are just as confused on that topic as you are". Industry Quote "It would take a cast of dozens of experts just to survey the field of new offerings every year, not to mention hundreds more experts to assess the existing millions of used boats. That's a feat no one has yet managed to tackle. That's why no one will give you a list of recommended boats. We can't just line boats up on a counter top and evaluate them; they're too big and the boats can't come to us, we have to go to them." This is a cop out the truth is a lot closer to every brand has some exceptional models and some real crap models. Some brand names are virtually valueless, others are sister companies where more than one brand name maybe manufactured side by side in the same plant. Or corporate cousins that share common materials and build technology. It is easier to remove some of the failed brands (builders who are out of production or have been out of production for years) from your list right up front. What you have to do is narrow the perimeters of your needs and budget. Then go ahead and sort the good brands and models available from the bad
So what do potential buyers do? They refer to the internet, brokers and persons they trust to aid them in their decision. For all of you who use internet searches for serious information on boats, you aren't going to find very many sites that will lay it all out there for you. Quote From Another So Called Boating Expert "Not many people are willing to risk getting sued by publishing negative information. It's far easier to go with the flow.
It's been said that the Internet has been largely responsible for creating better informed consumers. This comes mainly though complaints on forums and web sites like "My Crappy Larson" at Griperadio.com. We agree. Nowhere else can information be rounded up and transmitted so rapidly and made available to such a wide audience. But it has also led to a higher level of wariness by first time boaters that have cruised the forums and have heard the horror stories of first time buyers who have gotten burned."
SUED for publishing negative information! If a boat builder ever did that to Boat Nut I would scream it from the roof tops, (I have had enough dealings with these companies to be able and allowed to form an opinion of their boats.) Give me a break the truth of this is: There is no money in the truth. Here is how things really work the industry supplies "media releases and media prepared boats" which are then copied into the boat reviews that large media place on their sites or in print. Going with the flow means taking the easy way to cash, and admittedly these business' and sites cost money and time to run. So as a first time buyer who has your best interest at heart. Not very many boating sites are going to give you a real world impression of a power boat. It is not fear, the fact is the sites and magazines that post review information are designed and ran by marketers. Boat Nut Magazine is one of the few that is not ran by a marketing expert, we are industry insiders who have years of intimate experience with hundreds and hundreds of boats.
Plain and simple we do know of crap boats and we do know that there are brands that shouldn't be holding their value. Are there experts out their who you could trust when making a buying decision? Hell yes there are. Reading a few are articles and watching some video is not enough you have to get more involved ask questions of the publishers that you are reading. See if they provide another piece of marketing bull crap, or if they answer you straight forward and directly with confidence. Email, call, check out the responses that you receive, this is how you will discover who you can trust. Forums and Glitzy Magazine Covers do not make experts and beware of those who refer to themselves as "captains". ( I hate how that term CAPTAIN has been stolen by every dam self appointed boat expert who thinks they know it all) Honestly if there were this many experts in the boat market you would be knee deep in TO MUCH INFORMATION. There wouldn't be a hole in the power boat information super highway, yet there is a big hole. Many boaters on forums are already pissed off that their boat is broken, and in all likely hood its operator error. This is not were you want to receive advise on what boat to buy! Brokers are not much better than mass boating media, they want to steer a buyer toward the boats that they have listed, they do not want your money running out the door. Some will tell you the sky is green just to sell a boat. Boats are a want, not a need, your taste is not another's taste, your use of a boat is not the same as someone else. You must be true to yourself about what you want to use your boat for and the experience you are looking for on the water. Yes most boaters get it wrong the first time around, think of your first boat as a dry run. This is with or without great information. It will not take you long to figure it out, you will know more about the way you will use your boat. Your second boat will be the one you keep awhile and the third and so on. Please do not get discouraged by the stories of getting burnt or hearing a particular boat that you like is a terrible purchase. Opinions are like ass holes every one has one.
How do you make the decision? Be informed about the specific boat you have settled on. It is the suggestion of many boat industry sources that you buy a used boat first and save that new boat purchase until you have some boating experience under your belt. This is not the only way to gain boating experience you can rent a boat or borrow a boat if you have a generous friend. Make sure that your family will enjoy their time on the boat! My family is truly split two who love boating, and two who are not big on boating. This fact changed the last two boats that I owned the boats were smaller in size and set up for overnighting only.
Of course there are those who must only have a new boats, and I say more power to you. But do not expect that new means less loss of value, faster resale or less time being repaired. A decent used boat is a great way to start out at your boating lifestyle. Being educated with the make and model you choose will make a huge difference in your experiences on the water and when your ready the ability to make that leap to your second boat. I know many first time buyers who have paid way, way to much for used boats that truly were not a resalable. They made a decision with out consulting non bias information providers and making a quick purchase with out understanding three basic rules.
1- Do not buy based on a brand name only
2- Highly modified or remodeled power boats can be horrible on the water
3- Boat makes and models that are unpopular in their region will be more difficult to sell.
4- Know how to read a Hull Identification Number and never buy numbers one two or three at least.
4- Know how to read a Hull Identification Number and never buy numbers one two or three at least.
Region places a bigger role than you think in a boats value. Models that have been well marketed by dealers in your region for many years are the boats that are more in demand by your regional used boat buyers. A manufacturer that has been well marketed like Sea Ray have created such a buzz that there is always a demand, not because they are a better power boat, but due to the fact that boat sales are always handled in a way that seems to pit one brand (most popular, largest dealer) against another. Example SEA RAY and BAYLINER these where sister companies for years using the same build procedures and power plants. However Sea Ray owners always seem to beat up the Bayliner brand owners. Brands had to bash Bayliner they were the largest volume power boat builder in the world, more boats built than Sea Ray at one time. All this brand bashing yet they are both Brunswick Companies.
Selling boats is a war. Get educated and experienced do not become a casualty!
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QUOTE FROM INDUSTRY "Oh, we've heard the arguments about buying someone else's troubles a hundred times over. But since when don't new boats have problems? How many times does the typical new boat owner have to lug his boat back to the dealer for warranty work? Much too often, if our experience is any indicator.
The fact is that there are huge economic and reliability advantages in purchasing a boat that has been pre owned and pre tested, if I may use that term. A boat that has been used for a couple of years has been out there banging around on the waves. If there's anything that's not right, anything that's going to break, it is likely to have already done so. If the deck is going to pop loose from the hull because it was fastened with aluminum rivets, a quick glance at it will surely tell the story."
I could not have said that better of course the reference to the deck and hull joint may be a stretch. A key role in that pretested boat theory, a boat with a couple of years of operation, is hours of operation per year. Did the boat motor(s) even get broken in, did the warranty issues that may have appeared get reported or fixed. Were there any recalls. Did the boat receive the first correct services and last is their a warranty time left and is it transferable. These are all very important questions that an informed buyer will know to ask, or at the very least how to get the answers.
Never assume that the two or three year old boat has had the bugs worked out and fixed that is a huge mistake! Some boat owners are drowning from the moment the boat arrives at the dock and the boat simply does not get the attention that it deserves needs or mandatorily requires.
Never assume that the two or three year old boat has had the bugs worked out and fixed that is a huge mistake! Some boat owners are drowning from the moment the boat arrives at the dock and the boat simply does not get the attention that it deserves needs or mandatorily requires.
I have to have a brand new boat, on the new boat I am covered with a nice warranty blanket? OK, but what will it take in time and aggravation to have any of the work done. How disappointed will you become if you spend well in excess of a hundred grand and have the boat tied up in repair in the first year. Boats are one of the last big ticket products that are still largely hand assembled with technology that has had limited testing. A great example of this is the Volvo ONE DRIVE the reverse I/O. Boat builders had to highly modify the existing boat hulls in production to make this drive work. With vast amounts of what appears to be trim tabs but are actually anti cavitation plates. I have completed warranty repair work around the globe for many of the big brand manufacturers and seen a lot of owners upset that they made that new boat purchase . You have to be realistic, new boats are not without issues. The uphill battle when these issues are serious can be daunting.
The economics in considering a used power boat make even greater sense. Industry Quote "Take a cue from larger boat buyers. Over 90% of all boats over 30 feet sold every year are USED BOATS! Ninety percent. And we're talking here boats of up to ten times the value of the typical entry level runabout. Take it from the more experienced boat owners who know value when they see it; used boats are a tremendous value. Let me explain why.
Let's say that the new twin outboard, twenty foot runabout you're looking at can be had for $40,000 straight out of the box. A comparable model that's four years old sells for $20,000. That's a whopping $20,000 difference. And for whatever may be wrong with the used one, that twenty thousand will cover the cost of repair of any problems many times over. And the higher the price, the greater the new/used price spread is going to be."
And keep in mind that part of what you are paying for with a new boat is the fancy dealer show room, as well as his profit.
What greater inducement can be offered a first time buyer? And even if your purchase does turn out to be a mistake, it will be a mistake that only costs about half as much.
There is truth to that statement but the fact remains that you are actually putting a percentage of that new boat cost directly back into the customer service departments budget to complete the required volume of repairs that the new boats of that model year will require. It is more of that new boat price tag than you think!
There is truth to that statement but the fact remains that you are actually putting a percentage of that new boat cost directly back into the customer service departments budget to complete the required volume of repairs that the new boats of that model year will require. It is more of that new boat price tag than you think!
That twenty thousand dollar difference referenced to in the above statement does not make any sense to me. Unless you are steeling a forty thousand dollar boat for twenty grand. then are you not buying a twenty thousand dollar boat and preparing to sink a load of cash into it that you will never see back. I get the principal but that does not take away from the fact that you must be an educated consumer to buy right. Not just a boat buyer who is willing to accept dropping a pile of cash over time into a used boat, and how that could work out to be cost effective boat buying decision making?
Current Internet Boater Information
Outboard -vs- Stern Drive Many people still aren't clear on this point, yet getting the right criteria to make a decision is simple.
- If a boat is to be left afloat in sea water, outboards are the best option. Why? Because outboards can be lifted up out of the water; stern drives can't.
- Stern drives are fine for fresh water and those who keep their boats in dry storage.
Boat Nut Response:
Out Board VS Stern Drive: What a crock that is lets try and clear this up for the above site
First of all there is no way to entirely clear the water even with an outboard the transom bracket and the base of the trim ram is always in the water. In fact trimming the motor in and out of the salt with out a rinse will promote, not stop corrosion.
Stern Drives are designed for salt water emersion they are not any better or worse than an outboard motor.
As a matter of fact the reasons power boats are rigged with outboards rather than stern drives is boat performance, manufacturers place outboards on the back of boats to provide the best performance for a particular hull. It has nothing to do with salt or fresh water.
Some boat builders will offer a stern drive or outboard package for the same boat, the reason for this is retail price and the ability to hang an outboard and gain more free room deck space at the aft deck area. Hence more seating or more open deck for fishing. The choice between the outboard or inboard outboard is boat design, performance,coat and deck usage.
Current Internet Boater Information
Closed -vs- Raw Water Cooling Systems This applies to any type of inboard power. This choice is also a simple one.
- If you're operating in sea water, the closed cooling system should be considered mandatory. Sea water does the same thing to your engine as salt on the roads in winter does to your car. And sometimes the corrosion damage occurs very, very quickly.
- If you're operating in fresh water, you do not need a closed cooling system and there's no point in paying the extra cost.
Does this apply to outboards? No. The outboard motor sits vertically on the drive unit. When the engine stops, all the cooling water runs out by means of gravity, so internal corrosion is not the same problem as it is with inboard/stern drives without closed cooling systems.
Boat Nut Response:
Closed Cooling VS Raw Water Cooling: Again where do they get these recommendations from?
Any inboard or inboard outboard can be closed cooling, and no there is no simple choice as a matter of fact new technology makes that choice for you!
Closed cooling works well any where you boat with the exceptions of any body of water that gets warm enough on a regular bases to prevent the heat exchanger from properly transferring the heat from the motor to the fresh water in the exchanger. A great example of an area where closed cooling doesn't work well is in Florida in the gulf of Mexico where the water is to warm to cool motors down enough. These older motors will always run warmer than they should.
Damage from corrosion in salt water or high mineral content water will come along if you do not have the correct anodes, or enough of them, and failing to be a responsible owner and failing to flush the motor regularly.
New motors require a constant running temperature to perform properly if this is the case then closed cooling maybe a not be an option you get closed cooling that's it.
Closed cooling was an expensive option to have added to your motor when new however if you did add the closed cooling system, winterizing is easier, water passages in engine blocks will not end up with sand in them, and overall corrosion around the entire engine is reduced no matter where you are boating.
Out boards are now and have always been susceptible to corrosion. Not all of a new four stroke outboard automatically drain area such as thermostat housings can and do hold some water.
Out boards are now and have always been susceptible to corrosion. Not all of a new four stroke outboard automatically drain area such as thermostat housings can and do hold some water.
BOAT MAKES
Industry Quote:" When it comes to quality and separating the wheat from the chaff, this is not an easy task. Asking others is one way to get information. Try taking a trip to the local marina or launching ramp on Saturday and start asking questions. But beware that most boat owners take boat ownership personally. Many are reluctant to admit that the boat they own is not all that it should be. If a guy says that his boat is the greatest thing on the water, he may not be giving you the whole story. Assuming he knows the whole story. Not many people are willing to admit to making a mistake."
I disagree there are ways top spot quality in a moment if you are around several boats, here are a few tips :
I disagree there are ways top spot quality in a moment if you are around several boats, here are a few tips :
1- Deck hardware: A dead give away for a boats quality, look at the cleats and the bow rail. The stainless hardware is a place where a boat builder can cheap out and still get the job done. If you see quality in stainless you will know it chunky and not pieced together
2- Colored hulls: Take a closer look at the color is it foggy and cloud like, this is a sign of lower quality gel coat materials.
3- Upholstery and Canvas: Another area where boat manufacturers can save money Cheap vinyl will start to fail in the first couple of years. Look at areas where you may rub the vinyl boarding the boat or areas where hands are on the material all the time. If the boat comes with a bimini does it have side curtains is it a complete enclose. Is there a boarding area were you do not have to step on cushions to access the cockpit area.
4- Component: Assembly of more inexpensive boats will probably have many parts added to it or components to create lines and features. A quality boat has very little to no added crap mounted less is definitely more.
5- Open a hatch and look under the deck cheaper boats are usually rough and unfinished
6- There are a whole host of tells to know if a boat is quality that's just a few
A boater who admits that their boat is a pile of junk is probably so irritated with the boat that he/she will probably be glad to show you or tell you exactly what the issues are. You will however have to take this information with a grain of salt as some of these boaters will find everything with the boat to be a horrible plan or product. These boaters may complain and bitch however the source of the complaining could be affordability of ownership or repair which has compounded the issue creating a hate relationship with the boat. Ask a few pointed questions, and know the questions to ask, do not think you know what to ask, know you know what to ask. An unhappy owner can be a source of accurate information. Only if the owner can give you some very specific reasons why he/she dislikes his boat. The same rules apply for the boat lover, in some cases this is ego and attitude more so than reality. There are many boaters who do not want to admit that their boat has had any issues at all.
Industry Quote: " The price is the other major part of the equation. Generally speaking, repeat, generally speaking, higher prices indicate higher quality. The problem is that with a new boat, it's tough to prove that claims to higher quality are really valid until the boat has been put to the test".
This is so true with todays market more than at any other time models are changing design so rapidly that the truth will only come with time. Quality of materials and finishes will not make a sea worthy craft I am concerned that ergonomics and space are starting to trump design safety. Are builders just creating dock jewelry? Some rather expensive boating bling that wouldn't get you back to port in a storm.
This is so true with todays market more than at any other time models are changing design so rapidly that the truth will only come with time. Quality of materials and finishes will not make a sea worthy craft I am concerned that ergonomics and space are starting to trump design safety. Are builders just creating dock jewelry? Some rather expensive boating bling that wouldn't get you back to port in a storm.
Industry Quote: "So once again we come full circle to fact that the used boat usually represents the better buy. It's been put to the test, so that if it does have problems, at least you have the opportunity to discover those problems by getting it surveyed."
So what have we learned here ? Well buying a boat new or used requires a new boater to make a lot of decisions ahead of the brand name. The brand that you will end up buying will likely be the one that ticks off as many of the boxes on your wish list as possible. Meets your budget and passes the quality and condition standard that you the buyer decides to set. If your first boat is a used boat it will cost you less and give you the boating experiences you need. Should it not meet the needs that you actually encounter as a boat owner, it has not cost you as much as a new boat. If you buy used you should follow all the steps to protect yourself from buying a money pit or a previous owners problems.
Quite often used boats that are for sale have experienced a time of neglect. This is the time between when the previous owner has decided to sell the boat and the time the new owner takes possession. Most new buyers need to call in experts to assist them in making decisions surrounding current condition and required service to get the boat they are buying or have already purchased up to standard.
So what have we learned here ? Well buying a boat new or used requires a new boater to make a lot of decisions ahead of the brand name. The brand that you will end up buying will likely be the one that ticks off as many of the boxes on your wish list as possible. Meets your budget and passes the quality and condition standard that you the buyer decides to set. If your first boat is a used boat it will cost you less and give you the boating experiences you need. Should it not meet the needs that you actually encounter as a boat owner, it has not cost you as much as a new boat. If you buy used you should follow all the steps to protect yourself from buying a money pit or a previous owners problems.
Quite often used boats that are for sale have experienced a time of neglect. This is the time between when the previous owner has decided to sell the boat and the time the new owner takes possession. Most new buyers need to call in experts to assist them in making decisions surrounding current condition and required service to get the boat they are buying or have already purchased up to standard.
So who are the "experts"? You can hire a surveyor to advise you. Industry Quote" When it comes to small boats, probably not. The fact is that there's no money in small boats for surveyors, so there are probably very few that would even try to specialize in building a wealth of information about small boats. Besides, there are too many of them."
If you have read any of my previous articles you will already know that I am not a fan of surveyors. Its a broken system that is far to lop sided when it comes to the way a boat is inspected. Surveyors show up with their moisture meters and hammers and go to work on a used boat taking readings and banging away to find deficiencies that may have existed from day one. They quote the ABYC bible and make recommendations regarding out of date systems or components. There is no test ride and the boat does not even have to run. They should kill the term survey and bring in a power boat safety, this smoke and mirrors excuse that there are to many boats to develop a safety inspection is the biggest load of ..B...S...... well you know. There are set guidelines and standards in the boat construction world that could be followed, and make a complete mechanical inspection part of the deal. No safety No transfer of title. There are too many first time boaters who lay out their money on the word of a previous owner, broker or hired expert that end up completely upside down for my liking. The fear here is that many power boats would fail such a test and require to much to repair to be worth while. That's ok the boat market needs to be cleaned up to protect new boat buyers and safeties would be a great place to start. As a matter of fact this type of program may help stabilize insurance rates and over all cost of power boat ownership. It would certainly bring a standard to power boat inspections and reduce the element of risk associated with buying a used boat.
If you have read any of my previous articles you will already know that I am not a fan of surveyors. Its a broken system that is far to lop sided when it comes to the way a boat is inspected. Surveyors show up with their moisture meters and hammers and go to work on a used boat taking readings and banging away to find deficiencies that may have existed from day one. They quote the ABYC bible and make recommendations regarding out of date systems or components. There is no test ride and the boat does not even have to run. They should kill the term survey and bring in a power boat safety, this smoke and mirrors excuse that there are to many boats to develop a safety inspection is the biggest load of ..B...S...... well you know. There are set guidelines and standards in the boat construction world that could be followed, and make a complete mechanical inspection part of the deal. No safety No transfer of title. There are too many first time boaters who lay out their money on the word of a previous owner, broker or hired expert that end up completely upside down for my liking. The fear here is that many power boats would fail such a test and require to much to repair to be worth while. That's ok the boat market needs to be cleaned up to protect new boat buyers and safeties would be a great place to start. As a matter of fact this type of program may help stabilize insurance rates and over all cost of power boat ownership. It would certainly bring a standard to power boat inspections and reduce the element of risk associated with buying a used boat.
Industry Quote: "The bottom line is, whether you buy new or used, that when making that first boat purchase, there is some risk involved. Keep in mind that boat builders are very, very small companies, not the likes of a General Motors or Honda with billions of dollars in resources. Boat builders come and go with considerable frequency. Some aren't very good with, or even have the ability to give good warranty service. Hence, that fabulous warranty the salesman touts may have a different basis in reality.
Therefore, the element of risk isn't all that great between buying a new boat or used."\
There is some truth to the above statement. Yes there are a mountain of small boat manufacturers out there for whom some of this statement applies, however there are giants like Brunswick who are as big as GM and have the resources to back up their boat builders warranties. This cottage industry thinking has to go the way of the Doe Doe . Boats are one hell of a substantial investment and the buyers expectations should be just as high as the price tag.
Actually that sums this section of this article up in the simplest of terms possible: When buying a power boat new or used you can expect to get what you pay for! Buy a cheap used boat be prepared to have problems the more you spend the better the boat you will get. I am sure there is the occasional deal to be had but look at the price of a new boat like the used one you are looking at. Compare the gap in price and decide if the risk is worth the reward. If you are educated on the make and model and understand the boat this decision can be an easy one to make. Learn how to self survey before you call in an expert this way you can thin out the few boats that you place on your purchase possibility list! Every boater should know their boat from bow to stern and top to bottom.
PART 2 http://boatnutmedia.blogspot.ca/2015/12/whos-who-power-boat-manufacturers-part1.html
PART 2 http://boatnutmedia.blogspot.ca/2015/12/whos-who-power-boat-manufacturers-part1.html
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